{"ok":true,"protocol":"maclain_hunter_q_number_item_v1","qid":"Q1401","item":{"qid":"Q1401","slug":"hunter-orders-prove-order","path":"/q/Q1401","subdomain":"q1401.4p-engine.com","schemaType":"CreativeWork","recordOrigin":"authored_source","authoredSource":{"author":"Maclain Hunter","text":"Orders Prove Order by Maclain Hunter:\n\nPremises:\n\nP: An order (directive - command) is a kind/form of Order (Logos) that depends on the Logical Structure of the Cosmos (Logos - the First Cause and Universal Principle) to exist and be meaningful or intelligible. \n\nQ: An atheist could argue that they are tired of being ordered (told) to believe in God (Logos - YHVH - the God of Reason) and that they want to see proof, as this could reflect common atheist sentiments.\n\nR: You can order someone to believe in God when they ask for evidence of the True God (Logos) and it is actually evidence of “Order in General/Existence” (Logos in the Cosmos), even if a finite and particular form of it that might come across as rude or closed minded. Any directive is evidence of the “Prime Directive” (Logos - Logic - God) we could also say.\n\nS: Assume ~{P, Q, R} is true. That leads to logical contradiction where an order is not any kind of Order and where order of some kind is not proof of Order in general and/or of any kind, which would violate logical rules like the law of non-contradiction that forms the backbone, along with Identity and God/Logic being God/Logic, of intelligibility and reasoning about/in the Cosmos. \n\nLogical Structure (Logos - Proof): \n\n{P, Q, R, S} |= (P <-> R) & Q) & S\n\nConclusion: {P, Q, R, S}:\n\nAn atheist could argue that they are tired of being ordered (told) to believe in God (Logos - YHVH - the God of Reason) and that they want to see proof, as this could reflect common atheist sentiments. 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Any directive is evidence of the “Prime Directive” (Logos - Logic - God) we could also say.\n\nS: Assume ~{P, Q, R} is true. That leads to logical contradiction where an order is not any kind of Order and where order of some kind is not proof of Order in general and/or of any kind, which would violate logical rules like the law of non-contradiction that forms the backbone, along with Identity and God/Logic being God/Logic, of intelligibility and reasoning about/in the Cosmos. \n\nLogical Structure (Logos - Proof): \n\n{P, Q, R, S} |= (P <-> R) & Q) & S\n\nConclusion: {P, Q, R, S}:\n\nAn atheist could argue that they are tired of being ordered (told) to believe in God (Logos - YHVH - the God of Reason) and that they want to see proof, as this could reflect common atheist sentiments. However, this would be a contradictory stance that amounts to saying you need Proof/Order (Logic - God) because you are sick of having Proof/Order (Logic - God).\n\nHowever this request for proof, as if none has been given or should have been seen (by a truly shrewd rationalist with an eye for proof and Reason), overlooks the nature of the “order” to believe in God (Universal Order - Divine Reason) - the Logic of Reality (Logos - YHVH) that any form of ORDER, even one barked from a commander to a soldier in war, or from a priest to the pews,  or from the senseless to the sensible (ie - an atheist telling me, a mind coherent with Logos, not to believe in the God/Source/Coherence that is the truest and most original aspect of myself, which would amount to denying that I myself “am what I am”) is evidence (including empirical evidence in the many cases like written arguments that can be seen or spoken orders to do something that can be heard) of the God of Reason (Logos - the Foundational Universal Order and Logic - YHVH). \n\nTherefore I can order someone to believe in God when they ask for evidence of the True God (Logos) and it is actually evidence of “Order in General” (Logos), even if a finite and particular form of it. 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